Odds & Ends & Auction Business Frank Ross on 09 Nov 2006 04:05 pm
Bogus VeRo Claims - Some IP Owners Don’t like eBay?
eBay’s VERO program (VERO stands for ‘Verified Rights Owner’) was designed to give intellectual property owners a way to protect their copyrights on eBay. Typically, this is used to protect against counterfeit and illegal sale of items.
You might imagine my surprise when I learned our eBay account was zapped with a VERO complaint earlier this week. At first, I thought it was some disgruntled competitor using the VERO program to create negative strikes against us. The VERO violation was for a brand name juicer we sell although it really wasn’t clear exactly what the VERO violation was for.. Upon closer look, I saw that the email of the person who filed the complaint was from the juicer company itself. The eBay user id was a ubiquitous one which is apparently kept as a ‘mole’ for this company.
The biggest issue I have with this is that we are established resellers for this line of juicers and we have permission to use their images, trade name, etc. on our website (according to their terms). Apparently, that permission does not extend to eBay although their terms say nothing of that. Furthermore, this particular juicer is sold nonexclusively on the Amazon Marketplace with stock images, text, and trade name. So this begs the question: why is OK to use their trade name on my website and other sales channels, yet it’s a VERO violation on eBay?
It looks to me like this VERO complaint is nothing more than a sham to keep sellers from selling their product on eBay. It doesn’t appear to be about intellectual property at all. My inquiry to this eBay user regarding this matter has gone unanswered, so that leaves me to rely on assumptions. To be honest, this line of juicers was performing poorly on eBay (and other channels) and I had decided to drop the line before this VERO complaint.
I suspect this isn’t an isolated incident. Here is an article that describes another dubious VERO case. Are IP holders filing VERO’s because they don’t like eBay?
While suppliers and IP holders should be free to establish their sales channels and to limit certain sales channels like eBay, such policies should be communicated clearly in their Terms and Conditions. If they don’t want their product sold on eBay, let them say so in ways other than bogus VERO complaints.
Tags: eBay VeRo, Home Based Business, eBay Home Business, eBay Business , Intellectual Property
on 21 Nov 2006 at 3:56 am 1.Bert said …
There is one aspect of eBay that has gone unmentioned which is effecting VERO as well as another “obvious” issue at eBay.
eBay has a “branding” problem which was created by the “branding specialist” Meg Whitman.
People do not buy things from any particular seller on eBay, they “buy” things from eBay. From the start of her tenure at eBay Whitman made sure that the only branding that happened on eBay was about eBay. If you ask anyone who purchased an item from an eBay seller who they purchased the item from, they by and large will say “eBay”. Rarely if ever is a seller’s name used. Of the millions of sellers on eBay how many can we associate as a branded name or even name, and if we can find any that have successfully branded on eBay, was the branding capable of being portable or effective off eBay ?
Notwithstanding the quality/market channel issues, this eBay branding is why so many brand name holders are attempting to keep their brand names off off eBay through VERO. It is also why brand name holders will not list their brands on eBay.
on 21 Nov 2006 at 7:44 pm 2.Midnight_Trading said …
Many manufacturers of Brand Name products feel that the selling of their product on eBay devalues their brand. Many bar their brands from being sold online or by mail order entirely. When their dealers hide behind an eBay account name to bypass these sales restrictions, using VERO is their only option. The issue may not be that they let it be sold on Amazon, the issue may be that they just don’t have a method to enforce it there.
on 22 Nov 2006 at 2:23 am 3.Duane said …
Just consider all the copyright and trademark infringement lawsuits in the news during the past year, and place yourself in the shoes of these company’s founders, owners, managers, and directors. eBay has become the global marketplace of fakes, rip-offs, counterfeits, and frauds, and they have taken it another step by allowing 90% of these products to be sold free from Southeast Asia. Would you want your company’s products among those same rip-offs? When a buyer receives a counterfeit product that falls apart in a week, who will they blame? eBay? The seller? Or the “manufacturer” that is named on the product?
I personally would not allow anything my company manufactured to be sold on eBay for this very reason, even if Target and Walmart had eBay stores and wanted to sell my products there. eBay gives such a bad image to so many brands, that the long term effects of their bad business practices would eventually destroy any manufacturer’s good name.
As a director of any consumer goods manufacturer, I would place a full 24 hour staff to monitor eBay for all my company’s products and promptly have them removed without any excuses or explanations.
on 27 Nov 2006 at 4:31 am 4.Jeff Busby said …
Duane is 100% correct. Fakes of my products proliferate on eBay to the point where the original finely made product is now totally worthless. Fakes made cheaply in China are all over the place there.
All of you note this: I was — and still am — a VeRO member. I was a member when it first started, I was a member of the rights group BEFORE VeRO began. The lead IP attorney of eBay did NOT like it when I proved conclusively to him that the use of my name on a fake sold for substantially more than a fake that did not use my name falsely.
I’d suggest you nay-sayers read up on the law. As well, eBay’s VeRO policy is worse than useless and they WILL NOT follow their own rules. While I am sorry that the blogger feels he holds some rights and was unfairly closed, I have found that making patient explanations to eBay sellers is like talking to a brick wall. They feel they can DO anything — sell copies and fake, rip people off and use phony descriptions.
Explaining rights to know nothings is a waste of time and effort. It is tough enough to police eBay and it’s sharks.
Frankly, take a look at the Tiffany vs. eBay suit. That’s reality. More than 80% fake items. The same with many other name brands. EBay is a seller of slum and will sue anyone who challenges what they do.
There is much more that can be said about their policies — the policies they use quite slectively — but then, I’ve become used to reading MY OWN WRITING USED WITHOUT PERMISSION to sell counterfeit goods. I cannot sympathize with those of you who do not understand the issues. If you are selling in that venue (and I will no longer sell there) it is your OBLIGATION to know the law that affects what you propose to sell. Most do not and will not, thinking that eBay is a free-for-all.
Their “spokesman” would like everyone to believe his “spin” on things. Yeah, Hani, right … If you know what they really do and how they really act, you’d find them as revolting as I do.
Unless you support their truly bad behavior, and are honest yourself, THEN LEAVE EBAY AND SELL ON AN HONEST, TRUSTWORTHY VENUE. EBay is NOT that.
on 13 Aug 2008 at 2:22 pm 5.EbaySeller said …
I think its deplorable that people are selling knock offs and rip offs and ruining a good products reputation on ebay.
However, I personally have been VeRO’d by a woman who claims to have a copyright that she does NOT have. She claims that one of our designs that WE DESIGNED is her design. I have filed a challenge on the VeRO… but the problem is even if she doesnt take action, my rating is ruined and since she vero’d three items I now have three strikes and will be kicked off entirely.
This woman has been allowed to bully sellers for TWO years in regards to a copyright she doesnt have. She has NO rights yet EBAY doesnt care and continues to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to all our complaints. There are MULTIPLE SELLERS who have been harrassed by this woman.
I understand what the VeRO program is for, but its not for FAKE copyrighters to use to get rid of any competition either. We design scrapbook pages and paper piecings… I mean come on anyone can sell paper right?????
Ebay’s VeRO program is a flippin joke. I have been trying to get someone in the VeRO program to have her prove she has the valid copyright. I have already checked it out and she doesn’t. I worked in IP for several years so Im not an ebay know nothing. I am a professional, educated individual who doesn’t appreciate being bullied by some wind bag on Ebay.
She is rude, unprofessional, arrogant, and clueless! Why doesnt EBAY take action against FALSE VeRO claims?
This program is USELESS on both sides as far as I’m concerned. If you don’t plan to pursue legal action against someone than don’t VeRo them. Ebay tells you to work it out with the seller who VeRo’d you. Very interesting when her responses are things like I don’t have to prove anything to you about my copyright. Uh lady, if you expect us to pull merchandise and to not have our designers taking their time to make products that might infringe than I think you owe it to us and yourself to prove your action don’t you think?
She is threatening me OUTSIDE of the Ebay system because she has all my personal information now. Which is another pet peeve. You don’t need my personal email, address, phone, etc. unless you plan to take a reasonable course of action.
This nut case is trying to use cyber bullying to get people not to sell similar designs. How is that FAIR, LEGAL or otherwise?
Any advise out there for not losing my ebay account because of this ridiculousness?
Ebay just continues to send form letters even when I ask for an attorney/legal staff contact.
Thanks